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THE NOOBIE PLAYGROUND For all those new to the ROCKGODS that might feel too intimidated to just jump right into the deep end, please feel free to post here. This is a flame free, ridicule free, rig bashing free zone so that you can get to know your fellow members under a ROCKGODS security blanket. Otherwise known as a Mr. Rockape/4x4Babe free zone.....

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Old January 5th, 2014   #1
Jeff Knoll
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New guy.

Been around rocksports for a while, done a few things, now I am living in Reno. Heard this is a good place to find out where the good trails are.

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Old January 5th, 2014   #2
MR.ROCKAPE
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Welcome Jeff....

What kinda rig are you wheelin? There are alot of different level trails around...from mild to wild.
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Old January 5th, 2014   #3
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Been around rocksports for a while, done a few things

Such modesty!
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Old January 12th, 2014   #4
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welcome, but don't think we are just going to hand over the good trails to you, especially if you are trying to use them in your Silver State Jamboree event! Most of our trails are not public for a reason.......
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Old January 13th, 2014   #5
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welcome, but don't think we are just going to hand over the good trails to you, especially if you are trying to use them in your Silver State Jamboree event! Most of our trails are not public for a reason.......
Heard that about you guys, and I am fairly sure my target demographic does not want to go that extreme. BUT Since you brought that up, let me share an opinion with you. Take it for what its worth.

There where some that expressed concern when Dave and I created KOH that we would wreck all the good trails in Johnson Valley. We both enjoy cutting trails, and I think history proves we protected the most challenging trails from getting stacked by the full body guys. If we had not created KOH there is no doubt in my mind that Johnson Valley would have been completely swallowed by the Marine Corps, and the Hammers would be gone. Somehow even with 30,000 people going to JV now for the week, and who knows how many new users in JV, the best trails are still pretty damn good, and even the popular trails get more difficult when KOH gets done with them.

So I offer this advice as Nevada goes from open use designation which allows us to develop new trails where ever we like and begins restricted use which will discontinue this freedom. Those of us that like to develop new opportunities, and test our skills on the trail and in the shop, will need to rethink our current position. If you want to protect those secret trails of yours you will need to make a choice. Gamble on getting them designated, or gamble on running them illegally. It may take a few years, but either way things seem to be changing in Northern Nevada.

Based on my past experience the best way I can see protecting trails is to make them an economic benefit to the region. While we like to think the BLM works for us, that is far from the case. I have had extensive interaction with the BLM, all the way to the Director in Washington DC, and I can tell you that they do not work for us. That being said they do have to answer to our elected officials, and those guys and girls have the ability to smack the BLM and USFS upside the head. Get the local politicians on your side and you get a voice with the BLM and USFS. (more with BLM than USFS)

This may help you see my vision for the Silver State Jamboree. If I can attract enough people to come to Northern Nevada, I can convince the powers that be in the value that motorized recreation brings to the region, and the value of maintaining and developing an extensive trail system.

As far as thinking you would hand over your trails, I would suggest that since they are on public land, they are our trails.

The reality is I was hoping I might find a few people that would consider entertaining a few U4 racers that are planning on coming up for the SSJambo like Loren, Shannon, Rick, Jason, Tom, Ect that want to run some trails when they are up here the week before the HellsGate Grand Prix. But that might require you share your secrets.

All kidding aside I don't blame you for keeping them secret, I had a few secrets in Johnson Valley, shamefully I never shared how awesome they where with anyone, and now they are getting absorbed into the base. Only two of us ever had the chance to run them.

BTW Give me a few years, and I might have some secret trails I can barter with.
There is way more opportunity here than there is at the Hammers, and I don't have to drive that far.
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Old January 13th, 2014   #6
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There is way more opportunity here than there is at the Hammers, and I don't have to drive that far.
There is NOTHING even close to the hammers around here!!
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Old January 15th, 2014   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Knoll View Post
Heard that about you guys, and I am fairly sure my target demographic does not want to go that extreme. BUT Since you brought that up, let me share an opinion with you. Take it for what its worth.

There where some that expressed concern when Dave and I created KOH that we would wreck all the good trails in Johnson Valley. We both enjoy cutting trails, and I think history proves we protected the most challenging trails from getting stacked by the full body guys. If we had not created KOH there is no doubt in my mind that Johnson Valley would have been completely swallowed by the Marine Corps, and the Hammers would be gone. Somehow even with 30,000 people going to JV now for the week, and who knows how many new users in JV, the best trails are still pretty damn good, and even the popular trails get more difficult when KOH gets done with them.

So I offer this advice as Nevada goes from open use designation which allows us to develop new trails where ever we like and begins restricted use which will discontinue this freedom. Those of us that like to develop new opportunities, and test our skills on the trail and in the shop, will need to rethink our current position. If you want to protect those secret trails of yours you will need to make a choice. Gamble on getting them designated, or gamble on running them illegally. It may take a few years, but either way things seem to be changing in Northern Nevada.

Based on my past experience the best way I can see protecting trails is to make them an economic benefit to the region. While we like to think the BLM works for us, that is far from the case. I have had extensive interaction with the BLM, all the way to the Director in Washington DC, and I can tell you that they do not work for us. That being said they do have to answer to our elected officials, and those guys and girls have the ability to smack the BLM and USFS upside the head. Get the local politicians on your side and you get a voice with the BLM and USFS. (more with BLM than USFS)

This may help you see my vision for the Silver State Jamboree. If I can attract enough people to come to Northern Nevada, I can convince the powers that be in the value that motorized recreation brings to the region, and the value of maintaining and developing an extensive trail system.

As far as thinking you would hand over your trails, I would suggest that since they are on public land, they are our trails.

The reality is I was hoping I might find a few people that would consider entertaining a few U4 racers that are planning on coming up for the SSJambo like Loren, Shannon, Rick, Jason, Tom, Ect that want to run some trails when they are up here the week before the HellsGate Grand Prix. But that might require you share your secrets.

All kidding aside I don't blame you for keeping them secret, I had a few secrets in Johnson Valley, shamefully I never shared how awesome they where with anyone, and now they are getting absorbed into the base. Only two of us ever had the chance to run them.

BTW Give me a few years, and I might have some secret trails I can barter with.
There is way more opportunity here than there is at the Hammers, and I don't have to drive that far.
I think you are gonna have a hard time selling this idea to many locals. We have seen what has happened to the rubicon ,and pretty much any trail in CA. With designating of trails and roads.... a majority still got closed with the state citing they cant manage it and deem it easier to close for lack of $$$.

In my opinion, it was a stratgy used to make every trail and road known to do just that....CLOSE IT! And the few trails left in that state are always under attack and get made easier by law(in the case of the rubicon) to keep the big tire guys from wanting to bother with it.
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As far as thinking you would hand over your trails, I would suggest that since they are on public land, they are our trails. .
True.... trails are on public land but ,at this time we believe giving locations are counter productive to keeping them for the same reason I stated above.

On the bright side...nevada is huge...lots of canyons to still explore and make trails in.

A small side note to may want to do a little research if you are planning to use bronco canyon during your event....land owners up there are extremely touchy.
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Old January 15th, 2014   #8
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I can't blame you for that position. I would not suggest its wrong, Just my opinion that things have a better chance if there is a perceived value.

Rock trails I have in mind are on private property, and like your secret trails they are not readily accessible. Guess I am just as bad.
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Old January 16th, 2014   #9
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Name dropping, good luck with that, Last I checked Tom said he would never run UBC again, and since then we have more trails that are more difficult than that.
Jeff i respect your view, I have met you before at earleir KOHs and think you are a stand up guy, with that said, not everyone is. Your fishing in a dry pond. We have other nearby clubs that would love to know where the trails are, and are always trying, without success so far. They dont have the same level of trail respect as we do, and that is what gets trails closed. If groups like that found out our locations it would be over. Not only are our trails secret, but they remain that way because they are only used by us 1-2 times a year and only by us. Most trails are in BFE NV, nobody is going to find them, so due to the minimal use they get, their locations, available staging/parking, some private land, it is unlikely that they are going to be discovered or taken away from us. Most of our hard core trails are only one trail, not near other trails, take 12+ hours to run with well built buggies so to make it something that racers or Jamboree crowd could do is unlikely.

now there are areas that are worth exploring, and probably better suited to your needs. I would love to see your idea take hold in Northern Nv, and would be all about helping you discover those trails, but it is unlikely because of who you are (promoter) it is doubtful that the handful of folks who know their location will give them up..

I truley wish we could show them to you, becasue I think you would be impressed. We often talk about how NV has just as much to offer as JV and wonder why we still go there. I believe you could get support from this group if you needed help breaking new trails that you discovered or find them together with the understanding that they will become public. who knows what the future holds, but for now they're still secret, fish on!

anybody recall what happened to that last U4 vehicle that ran NEC with us
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Old January 17th, 2014   #10
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I am not sure who Tom is or the trail you speak of. My goal was not to come here and learn where your secret trails are, my goal was to learn who the players are in Northern Nevada that might be a good fit for taking some racers out on trail rides during the week.

Many racers have expressed to me that they are getting tired of always racing and want to go enjoy some trails. As said already, what you guys do is not what most of my demographic is going to do.

Northern Nevada has plenty there is no doubt. My opinion was simply that. An opinion.


I have no aspirations at this time to build a KOH style race on rock trails. We are building a dedicated Rock racing track at the Lucas track for HellsGate.

I can't express strategy for saving our ability to rock crawl up canyons for years to come on a public message board, I am sure you understand, maybe over beers some time we can have that debate in person. If the BLM up here is like they are in SoCa they regularly visit your site.

Cheers.
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Old January 17th, 2014   #11
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The Tom that B2Krawler is referring to is Tom Wayes......who is the Tom that you were referring to in your previous post?
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Old January 19th, 2014   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B2Krawler View Post
anybody recall what happened to that last U4 vehicle that ran NEC with us
Yeah! Ripped the rear axle out from under the car.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Knoll View Post
I am not sure who Tom is or the trail you speak of. My goal was not to come here and learn where your secret trails are, my goal was to learn who the players are in Northern Nevada that might be a good fit for taking some racers out on trail rides during the week.

Many racers have expressed to me that they are getting tired of always racing and want to go enjoy some trails. As said already, what you guys do is not what most of my demographic is going to do.
Everyone here I think assumed in your earlier post you were talking about Tom Wayes. Most know him around here but like most racers, "too" busy to trail wheel anymore. Jesse hangs with us on occasion and has helped "break" a few, but I thinks its been over a year now since he did any trail wheeling with us. Personally I don't have any interest to take "celebs" out on our trails. Its just too high exposure and they have no invested interest to keep the secret. The local racers know who we are and we are friends. Before U4, Rock Racing, KOH, etc. we ALL trail wheeled together. Some choose to take up racing, but as you see there is still a strong recreational group that is keeping it real and having fun.

We have all seen what happens to known trails, even some that were already designated. You can lobby, write your congressman, protest, sign petitions, get a lawyer, etc. and all it seems to do is prolong it and it gets gets taken from us anyhow. We are sick of it!!
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Old January 20th, 2014   #13
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Yep same Tom, missed that. You guys have a good one Maybe I will see you on a trail or at event some day. Last piece of advice, you should go completely underground because at some point you will be an easy target for the anti access crowd.

Like I have said a number of times, I don't blame you.
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