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Old March 12th, 2011   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanD View Post
then my e2000 seems fine. i can monitor the return, and have, and i flows like a Mo-Fo. i was actually surprised to see how much was returning. i wonder if its not your single line, return fuel filter you run? mine is returning via the factory return line from the fuel rail. IMO, i think the e2000 is fine. it flows plenty, and does 85psi. you only need 65'ish to start/run.

FYI, the e2000 is not what i run on my buggy. its something else. the summit e2000 wasn't available then i think.
SINCE THE E2000s STOCK APP IS A 88-90ISH BRONCO/TRUCK IM SURE IT WAS AVAILABLE (THOUGH THE STOCK APP ACTUALLY RUNS A PUSHER PUMP IN THE TANK.........IN ADDITION TO THE E2000 )

AND THE 4.3 RETURNS FROM THE RAIL....THE NEW RIG RUNS A WALBORO 255LPH PUMP....AND I DONT KNOW HOW WELL THAT RETURNS BECAUSE IT RUNS GOOD!!!!
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Old March 12th, 2011   #52
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You guyz brought up something that I didnt realize...
You need 65 PSI to start the motor?
I was trying to find flow rates and GPH for the vortec motor, and came up with SHIT!
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Old March 12th, 2011   #53
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man that is a cool way to mount the fuel tank
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Old March 12th, 2011   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago View Post
You guyz brought up something that I didnt realize...
You need 65 PSI to start the motor?
I was trying to find flow rates and GPH for the vortec motor, and came up with SHIT!
seems like you are WAY OVER THINKING the fuel pump thing. these motors are real basic low HP engines. they really don't require anything special. any modern EFI inline pump will support the fuel pressure and volume. that Summit E2000 at $82 is perfectly fine for a 5.3, 6.0 engine!
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Old March 14th, 2011   #55
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Originally Posted by BryanD View Post
seems like you are WAY OVER THINKING the fuel pump thing. these motors are real basic low HP engines. they really don't require anything special. any modern EFI inline pump will support the fuel pressure and volume. that Summit E2000 at $82 is perfectly fine for a 5.3, 6.0 engine!
LOL...You have NO IDEA how MUCH im over thinking this thing. For some reason this fuel situation just has be PARANOID. There is a SEVEN PAGE discussion on it on Ih8mud illustrating my paranoia. It IS how I roll though. Im still very much a NOOB in this off roading world and it all subsides AFTER I realize that things I did actually WORK and WORK reasonably well. Im sure this will be no different, but...
I decided to call Tanks inc and see how high those fittings are above the tank including the thickiness of the plate.... About 3/4 of an inch. Im gonna order one up and see if its doable. I cut apart the wrap bar and shortened the down tube on it to make for a bit more up travel. Not that Im all THAT worried about it, but a bit more safety clearance can never hurt.
Not that I HATE the idea of the in line, but its just what I WANT if I can make it work. If this doesnt pan out, Ill be doing the in line.
Before I mounted the tank, hooked a chain around the rear axle and hoisted that bitch up as high as I reasonably could... It came no where NEAR the tank.

Below are a few pics. Obviously, when Im loaded down with gear the scenario will be a bit different, but that is what bump stops are for.


Ill of course post progress as it occurs.
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Old March 14th, 2011   #56
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Now that is cranked up about 2.5 ft in the air. The roll cage is still only tacked in, so I didnt wanna over do it and risk having that fall out.
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Old March 20th, 2011   #57
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I WAS LOOKING AROUND AT MY RENTAL CHASSIS AND DOING SOME FUEL SYSTEM RESEARCH AND CAME ACROSS THIS...THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE OF SOME INTEREST...ESPECIALLY WITH THE FUEL PUMP MOUNTED IN IT....

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/...or-p-2818.html

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Old March 20th, 2011   #58
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Originally Posted by MR.ROCKAPE View Post
I WAS LOOKING AROUND AT MY RENTAL CHASSIS AND DOING SOME FUEL SYSTEM RESEARCH AND CAME ACROSS THIS...THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE OF SOME INTEREST...ESPECIALLY WITH THE FUEL PUMP MOUNTED IN IT....

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/...or-p-2818.html

what is that? How does that work?
FWIW, as a LAST attempt, I got one of those fuel pumps from tanks inc. it'll work, but I got shorted the mounting ring, so im held up on that..

thanks for the link.
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Old March 20th, 2011   #59
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Originally Posted by chicago View Post
what is that? How does that work?
FWIW, as a LAST attempt, I got one of those fuel pumps from tanks inc. it'll work, but I got shorted the mounting ring, so im held up on that..

thanks for the link.
IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE IT WORKS LIKE AN OIL PAN WINDAGE TRAY....GIVING YOU A LITTLE RESIVOIR OF FUEL WHEN YOUR RIG GOES OFF ANGLE....PLUS AN EASY IN-TANK FUEL PUMP MOUNT....AT LEAST THATS WHAT I THINK I SEE!!!!
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Old March 24th, 2011   #60
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So BACK on the tank today. Got all the parts I needed from Tanks inc.
Made a sump (3 in deep x 4in wide and 7 in long) to fit the sock with some play around it. Then transcribed the dimensions to the bottom of the tank to get the hole dimension on top.
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Old March 24th, 2011   #61
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NICE......I THINK FOR SOMETHING THAT GONNA SEE A FEW REAL STREET MILES YOU ARE GONNA BE HAPPY WITH THE ADDED RELIABILITY......
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Old March 25th, 2011   #62
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NICE......I THINK FOR SOMETHING THAT GONNA SEE A FEW REAL STREET MILES YOU ARE GONNA BE HAPPY WITH THE ADDED RELIABILITY......
Thanks man.
I know most run the in line, but...I really wanted the in tank for MY OWN piece of mind. I went to summit to buy all the in line stuff, had to wait till it opened and in that time I got to thinking that Id give THIS option one last shot. Bailed and ordered this unit.
Im gonna build a trap door i the floor of the cargo area that if flush so I can access it easily without having to drop the tank. The next BIG issue is how to run the fuel filler. There is a very nice yet, TIGHT spot that I can sneak a 2 in tube on the PS upper corner between the tub and frame rail. Only issue is getting the tank IN and OUT of its location as it will hit the frame rail in either direction up or down.
Should get a big chunk done this weekend!
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Old March 27th, 2011   #63
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BryanD...EIGHT pin hole leaks. 5 around the sump, 2 on the drain plug and ONE on the main part of the tank.
Do you grind down the weld a little bit, or just WELD OVER it? I ran outta time this afternoon, so I couldnt get to fixing them.

Almost done!
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Old March 27th, 2011   #64
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I usually just hit it again right where the bubbles come from. it doesn't take much. for the amount of bead you laid down, 8 is pretty good!
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Old March 28th, 2011   #65
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I usually just hit it again right where the bubbles come from. it doesn't take much. for the amount of bead you laid down, 8 is pretty good!
Ill work on it tonight a bit.
I was pleasantly surprised by that. I thought the thing would look like a friggin bubble maker. And considering the tank you posted in your write up had 5, I figured 8 wasnt too bad.
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Old March 28th, 2011   #66
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MOTHER FUCKER sealing those small STUPID FUCKING LEAKS was a BITCH!!!!
Fuckers just kept BARLEY leaking. Donno how that happens, but GAWT DAMN!
Tried quick spot welds, big FUGLY welds, ended up grinding the areas down and totally re welding and the STILL were not 100% sealed.

Finally got em though. Jesus FUCK!
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Old March 28th, 2011   #67
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MOTHER FUCKER sealing those small STUPID FUCKING LEAKS was a BITCH!!!!
Fuckers just kept BARLEY leaking. Donno how that happens, but GAWT DAMN!
Tried quick spot welds, big FUGLY welds, ended up grinding the areas down and totally re welding and the STILL were not 100% sealed.

Finally got em though. Jesus FUCK!
Yeah, you can't just "spot" hit it. some pre-heat with a mapp gas torch helps cuz your "spot" is going to be so quick, there just isn't enough time to build any heat and get penetration, and subsequently get it sealed.

wait till you build your buddies tank next - IT WILL BE FLIPPIN' PERFECT!!! better than yours!
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Old March 29th, 2011   #68
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Yeah, you can't just "spot" hit it. some pre-heat with a mapp gas torch helps cuz your "spot" is going to be so quick, there just isn't enough time to build any heat and get penetration, and subsequently get it sealed.

wait till you build your buddies tank next - IT WILL BE FLIPPIN' PERFECT!!! better than yours!
I was talkin with my old man on this issue...He's a retired machinist and welder and the one who taught me my DIY principals...He told me to solder the pin holes???
Ever tried that? Seems that would actually work quite well for this app.
Didnt think about the pre heat. Makes sense as it seemed when I was doing it that I needed more power on the torch.
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Old March 29th, 2011   #69
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Brazing might work well for the pin holes.
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Old March 29th, 2011   #70
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Brazing might work well for the pin holes.
Why brazing vs. solder? Too soft?
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Old March 29th, 2011   #71
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Why brazing vs. solder? Too soft?
i don't know. i've never soldered steel before. i've only brazed it.
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Old March 31st, 2011   #72
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Got a little more done on the tank.
Re did the mounts a bit. The filler is going to come in between the tub and frame rail on the PS. In order to make that work effectively for install and removal later, the tank HAD to be able to move directly over TOWARD the DS frame rail. So I had to cut apart the brackets that affix to the x members. This also makes installing the tank easier OVERALL as Im not locked into trying to slot those bushings into place. A little more play.
Also made a trap door in the floor for easy access to the pump. Still have to work out a way to bolt a lid down on it.
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Old April 10th, 2011   #73
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To update this...
ITS FUCKING DONE!!!!! Finalized everything yesterday. Did the last pressure test for the fill neck, had a few leaks around that. Got those sealed up and for extra measure used some "quick steel" on ALL the trouble areas as extra measure.
This has been ONE HELL OF A PROJECT.
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Old April 10th, 2011   #74
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Few more pics...
Getting the filler neck was probably the WORST of it.
All that is left now is paint, plumbing and wiring and it should be good to go.

I "THINK" I got all the debris OUT of the tank!?!?!?! Any recommendations on the best way to clean it?

Thanks for all the help on this gents! I GREATLY appreciate it. Bryan D...especially YOU for for showing me the way!
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Old April 10th, 2011   #75
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Few more pics...
Getting the filler neck was probably the WORST of it.
All that is left now is paint, plumbing and wiring and it should be good to go.

I "THINK" I got all the debris OUT of the tank!?!?!?! Any recommendations on the best way to clean it?

Thanks for all the help on this gents! I GREATLY appreciate it. Bryan D...especially YOU for for showing me the way!
No problem. you did a GREAT job. a little more complicated than i would have done, but in the end you got an AWESOME tank. as far as debris, that is why i recommend an easily serviceable pre filter to the pump. but that only works if you are running an external inline pump.
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Old April 10th, 2011   #76
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No problem. you did a GREAT job. a little more complicated than i would have done, but in the end you got an AWESOME tank. as far as debris, that is why i recommend an easily serviceable pre filter to the pump. but that only works if you are running an external inline pump.
I suppose the "sock" on the pump is sort of the pre filter. Got a summit in line filter and will add a 10 micron filter at the rail just as a precaution. That trap door makes getting to the pump and it component SOOOOOPER EASY, so I suppose that if debris is an issue it will all fall into the sump later where I can flush it out with fuel as I have the drain down there.
Spent a LOOOOONG TIME running a magnet down in the tank trying to get all that I could OUT.
Youre right though...I did make it far more complicated than it needed to be, but the way everything is shoved over to the PS on my rig, running the in line pump would have not been a picnic either as far as keeping the lines and the pump protected. There's just no room on the PS of the frame rail with the SWB, the doubler and the tank. Plus, I like that the pump will be constantly immersed in fuel as its supposed to. Tons of extra work, but I think itll be worth it in the end. That is what I keep telling myself anyway!
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Old April 10th, 2011   #77
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BTW...where do you run the vent to? Do you just vent to atmosphere, or can I run it to the intake somehow? When I talked with the DMV a while ago, they ELUDED to the idea that they "would like to see" it vented to a charcoal cannister or something. I dont have emissions on THIS rig as its NOT required and thus...Ill NOT be running a canister, but Ive read that the vent CAN BE run to the intake for the fumes to be burned in lieu of vent to air.

you guyz know anything about it?
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Old April 10th, 2011   #78
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BTW...where do you run the vent to? Do you just vent to atmosphere, or can I run it to the intake somehow? When I talked with the DMV a while ago, they ELUDED to the idea that they "would like to see" it vented to a charcoal cannister or something. I dont have emissions on THIS rig as its NOT required and thus...Ill NOT be running a canister, but Ive read that the vent CAN BE run to the intake for the fumes to be burned in lieu of vent to air.

you guyz know anything about it?
you can't just simply run the vent to the intake. it would be like a vacuum leak to the motor, not to mention the vacuum on the gas tank. may cause fuel draw problem. a factory EVAP system has a cannister that has its own vents. the intake uses a solenoid that only opens ones in awhile to draw the fumes from the cannister.

if your vehicle didn't have an EVAP from the factory you don't need it. simply vent to the outside air. keep it above the top of the tank obviously. i run a ball type check valve on the vent line for roll overs. racing requires a valve i think.
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Old April 10th, 2011   #79
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you can't just simply run the vent to the intake. it would be like a vacuum leak to the motor, not to mention the vacuum on the gas tank. may cause fuel draw problem. a factory EVAP system has a cannister that has its own vents. the intake uses a solenoid that only opens ones in awhile to draw the fumes from the cannister.

if your vehicle didn't have an EVAP from the factory you don't need it. simply vent to the outside air. keep it above the top of the tank obviously. i run a ball type check valve on the vent line for roll overs. racing requires a valve i think.
It did have an evap from the factory, but the Howell harness and computer no loner have the smog electronics. So I guess then the only thing I can do is vent to air, right?
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Old April 10th, 2011   #80
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It did have an evap from the factory, but the Howell harness and computer no loner have the smog electronics. So I guess then the only thing I can do is vent to air, right?
yep!
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Old April 10th, 2011   #81
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It did have an evap from the factory, but the Howell harness and computer no loner have the smog electronics. So I guess then the only thing I can do is vent to air, right?
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yep!
Wouldnt THAT cause a rough running motor AS IF you DID have a vac. leak somewhere?
I know that it HAS to vent somewhere, but I suppose I never really thought about it much till now....
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Old April 10th, 2011   #82
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Wouldnt THAT cause a rough running motor AS IF you DID have a vac. leak somewhere?
I know that it HAS to vent somewhere, but I suppose I never really thought about it much till now....
if the Evap solenoid never gets a signal then the motor will never see the leak. but if you need to smog the vehicle yearly you may want to make it at least look like the system is functional as I believe it listed in the required smog equipment for that vehicle. part of the visual test.
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Old April 11th, 2011   #83
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if the Evap solenoid never gets a signal then the motor will never see the leak. but if you need to smog the vehicle yearly you may want to make it at least look like the system is functional as I believe it listed in the required smog equipment for that vehicle. part of the visual test.
Where would I find that info? I checked on DMV site and came up with nothing re. This type of scinerio. However the 76 land cruiser did have a fuel separator and charcoal canister. I still have all that stuff, sans the can.
I agree. I don't wanna ruffle any feathers with those guyZ down there. That is the reason I went and talked w/ them to begin with.
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Old April 11th, 2011   #84
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Where would I find that info? I checked on DMV site and came up with nothing re. This type of scinerio. However the 76 land cruiser did have a fuel separator and charcoal canister. I still have all that stuff, sans the can.
I agree. I don't wanna ruffle any feathers with those guyZ down there. That is the reason I went and talked w/ them to begin with.
If there is any question I would just go talk to the guys in the shack at the DMV on Galletti. in the past they were very reasonable and easy to talk to. they have books there they can look up all the info in.
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Old April 11th, 2011   #85
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If there is any question I would just go talk to the guys in the shack at the DMV on Galletti. in the past they were very reasonable and easy to talk to. they have books there they can look up all the info in.
Yeah...that is what I have done in the past. Too bad they dont have the regs to view on line. Ill do that sometime this week if I get off work early and get a check list. Planning on it running THIS SUMMER, so.

Thanks for all the help!
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Old April 11th, 2011   #86
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FOR 76' MODEL YEAR ALL THE INSPECTION IS FOR A GAS CAP...81 AND NEW STUFF NEEDS AN ACTUAL VISUAL.....

SO ARE THEY GONNA MAKE YOU HAVE ALL THE EMISSIONS STUFF FOR THE YEAR OF THE ENGINE???
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Old April 11th, 2011   #87
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SO ARE THEY GONNA MAKE YOU HAVE ALL THE EMISSIONS STUFF FOR THE YEAR OF THE ENGINE???
when i did my NV DMV engine swap on my Sami years ago they looked up the 95 4.3 CPI Vortec in some book that showed what emissions equipment came on the engine from the factory. they verified that had that equipment on the engine, then gave me the official engine swap form that showed the 1987 Samuari with a 4.3 V6. I had to show this form to the smog shop each year i had it smogged so they new how to smog it.
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Old April 12th, 2011   #88
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FOR 76' MODEL YEAR ALL THE INSPECTION IS FOR A GAS CAP...81 AND NEW STUFF NEEDS AN ACTUAL VISUAL.....

SO ARE THEY GONNA MAKE YOU HAVE ALL THE EMISSIONS STUFF FOR THE YEAR OF THE ENGINE???
Ape,
The answer to that question is NO. Before I did anything re. the wiring harness, I went down and talked with the dude in the shack. He had to consult his "superior" and it was then determined that all I had to do was pass the smog regs for the year 1976. With a little bit of mistrust and skepticism in the back of my brain, I got the dudes business card, date and time this was stated. I actually went back and inquired TWICE cuz I had been hearing "stories" from the web "peanut galleries". So I double checked.
Second time around....initially...the guy (same guy) said that Id need to smog it to 01' standards..... I then WHIPPED OUT the ole card with THIS GUYZ name on it and informed him that HE had told me OTHERWISE....He then made a call to his "supervisor" again and then said...."uuuuuh...so you only need to smog to 76'."
This was about a year ago now....
The rationale behind this is that in 76' there were NO OBD compliance codes. Now, if I had done this swap into my old 88 cruiser. I would then be subject to the ALL the smog laws on that of an 88 (OBD I or II).

Hope this is still TRUE!?
I also asked about a fuel cell while I was there second time around, cuz that was my only option at that point...They wanted me to bring the tank down and that was when they said "we would LIKE to see it vented to a canister." He then went into this SHPEIL about how the FUMES are more harmful to the environment...etc.
Id like to hide the fact that the tank is HOME BUILT and probably the FURTHEST THING from DOT approved it possibly CAN BE. That also means diverting their attention AWAY from the tank as much as possible. Part of the reason I went to so much trouble to route the filler as close to stock as I possibly could.
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Old April 12th, 2011   #89
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when i did my NV DMV engine swap on my Sami years ago they looked up the 95 4.3 CPI Vortec in some book that showed what emissions equipment came on the engine from the factory. they verified that had that equipment on the engine, then gave me the official engine swap form that showed the 1987 Samuari with a 4.3 V6. I had to show this form to the smog shop each year i had it smogged so they new how to smog it.
There is NO annual inspection then? Just the ONCE over and youre good to go?
Lucky for us here in NV. they ARE pretty lenient re. this stuff.
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Old April 12th, 2011   #90
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So went to the DMV and had a chat with them...AGAIN the guyz in the shack had an IDEA, but no concrete answer, so they called their supervisor. Same thing. 81 and earlier, all the check for is a FUEL CAP!!!! Im like...that's it, the fuel cap!?!?!? SERIOUSLY??? Yeup..I roll down there, hey check I have a properly sealing fuel cap, they fill out the motor swap form and tell the SMOG guy HOW TO smog it and I carry that piece of paper for the annual smog.
However, the dude after he got off the phone said..."BETTER DO IT QUICK!" Sounds as if things are changin around there almost daily. He then said...."IF you have all the smog stuff, it MIGHT BE a good idea to just throw it on." UMMMMM....yeah...NOPE! Why NOT just tack on about another GRAND and MORE TIME to this.
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Old December 27th, 2012   #91
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Sooo...did this LC ever get swapped and smogged???
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Old December 27th, 2012   #92
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I think so



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Old December 27th, 2012   #93
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I think so



Sweet! its good to know stuff has gotten out and used some!!! Im suprized its still got the toy axles!!! I bet his LS motor could break them pretty easily!!!
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Old December 27th, 2012   #94
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He has deep gears, auto and a 203 doubler. He also has a light foot. We had a blast on Fordyce and Rubicon last summer as well as a lot of local trails. All of us were running Toy axles. Guess it's kind of about how you drive.
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